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	<title>Comments on: Why The Greens will definitely block the filter</title>
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	<link>/2010/opinion/why-the-greens-will-definitely-block-the-filter/</link>
	<description>Colin Jacobs in, on and about the Internet</description>
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		<title>By: Paul</title>
		<link>/2010/opinion/why-the-greens-will-definitely-block-the-filter/comment-page-1/#comment-1502</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Paul]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 09 Sep 2010 22:22:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=471#comment-1502</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[@Jimboot - I am confused at how the Greens could have lost you on global warming. If you are referring to their opposition to Rudd&#039;s trading scheme, I suggest you investigate/research further. Their opposition (and subsequent proposed amendments) were due to both environmental AND economic diligence. Effectively, they identified problems which would have resulted in 1) initial targets not meeting those internationally accepted by scientists as required, 2) penalties to government awarded to industry should targets be revised, 3) near certainty that international trade would require a revision in targets, leading to 4) a loss either way as either lost trade due to insufficient targets or the revision of targets for international trade resulting in large (and binding) compensation claims from industry.

It&#039;s obvious that not only was the ALP&#039;s scheme insufficient in tackling climate change, but that it was also extremely economically irresponsible. A &quot;better than no scheme at all&quot; approach is only worthwhile if it doesnt Lock In Failure (and cost).

If you are s climate skeptic, I&#039;d be interested in why you supported them in the first place!

Otherwise, I&#039;d suggest any people skeptical of Greens agenda to read their constitution, policy or become a member. There is no hidden agenda, nor us there any allowance for them to act against the will of their members. They are the only party I know of who allow anyone who joins to Immediately become involved in policy discussions with the highest echelons of the party...]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Jimboot &#8211; I am confused at how the Greens could have lost you on global warming. If you are referring to their opposition to Rudd&#8217;s trading scheme, I suggest you investigate/research further. Their opposition (and subsequent proposed amendments) were due to both environmental AND economic diligence. Effectively, they identified problems which would have resulted in 1) initial targets not meeting those internationally accepted by scientists as required, 2) penalties to government awarded to industry should targets be revised, 3) near certainty that international trade would require a revision in targets, leading to 4) a loss either way as either lost trade due to insufficient targets or the revision of targets for international trade resulting in large (and binding) compensation claims from industry.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s obvious that not only was the ALP&#8217;s scheme insufficient in tackling climate change, but that it was also extremely economically irresponsible. A &#8220;better than no scheme at all&#8221; approach is only worthwhile if it doesnt Lock In Failure (and cost).</p>
<p>If you are s climate skeptic, I&#8217;d be interested in why you supported them in the first place!</p>
<p>Otherwise, I&#8217;d suggest any people skeptical of Greens agenda to read their constitution, policy or become a member. There is no hidden agenda, nor us there any allowance for them to act against the will of their members. They are the only party I know of who allow anyone who joins to Immediately become involved in policy discussions with the highest echelons of the party&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Syd Walker</title>
		<link>/2010/opinion/why-the-greens-will-definitely-block-the-filter/comment-page-1/#comment-1457</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Syd Walker]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Sep 2010 09:30:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=471#comment-1457</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[@Jimboot

Thanks and good onya Jim.

The point you make is so obvious yet so true: We (the people) are paying for this. We&#039;re the piper; we should call the tune.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Jimboot</p>
<p>Thanks and good onya Jim.</p>
<p>The point you make is so obvious yet so true: We (the people) are paying for this. We&#8217;re the piper; we should call the tune.</p>
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		<title>By: Syd Walker</title>
		<link>/2010/opinion/why-the-greens-will-definitely-block-the-filter/comment-page-1/#comment-1456</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Syd Walker]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Sep 2010 09:20:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=471#comment-1456</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Fantastic Colin. It prolly needs some tweaking. 

Busy politicians - like the rest of us - can focus on a few dot points. With EFA endorsement they&#039;d be very powerful.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Fantastic Colin. It prolly needs some tweaking. </p>
<p>Busy politicians &#8211; like the rest of us &#8211; can focus on a few dot points. With EFA endorsement they&#8217;d be very powerful.</p>
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		<title>By: Jimboot</title>
		<link>/2010/opinion/why-the-greens-will-definitely-block-the-filter/comment-page-1/#comment-1455</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Jimboot]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Sep 2010 08:53:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=471#comment-1455</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Excellent idea @Syd. If we&#039;re paying for it why should the ISPs &#038; Govt get to decide. Wasn&#039;t that the problem with TLS?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Excellent idea @Syd. If we&#8217;re paying for it why should the ISPs &amp; Govt get to decide. Wasn&#8217;t that the problem with TLS?</p>
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		<title>By: Colin</title>
		<link>/2010/opinion/why-the-greens-will-definitely-block-the-filter/comment-page-1/#comment-1454</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Colin]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Sep 2010 08:47:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=471#comment-1454</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Hi Syd, I really like the idea of the &quot;People&#039;s NBN Charter&quot;. I might take that idea and run with it....]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Syd, I really like the idea of the &#8220;People&#8217;s NBN Charter&#8221;. I might take that idea and run with it&#8230;.</p>
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		<title>By: Syd Walker</title>
		<link>/2010/opinion/why-the-greens-will-definitely-block-the-filter/comment-page-1/#comment-1453</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Syd Walker]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Sep 2010 08:44:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=471#comment-1453</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Some kind of &#039;People&#039;s NBN Charter&#039; mught be handy for lobbying purposes.

Four key issues IMO:

1/ No mandatory censorship
2/ Best-practice privacy
3/ Guaranteed net-neutrality
4/ Affordable universal access]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Some kind of &#8216;People&#8217;s NBN Charter&#8217; mught be handy for lobbying purposes.</p>
<p>Four key issues IMO:</p>
<p>1/ No mandatory censorship<br />
2/ Best-practice privacy<br />
3/ Guaranteed net-neutrality<br />
4/ Affordable universal access</p>
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		<title>By: Emma</title>
		<link>/2010/opinion/why-the-greens-will-definitely-block-the-filter/comment-page-1/#comment-1451</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Emma]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Sep 2010 07:58:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=471#comment-1451</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Odds are they won&#039;t oust Conroy for Lundy because through Windsor&#039;s support of the NBN, the ALP narrowly won govt.

What we will need to do in the short term is lobby the government to drop the filter as a separate policy and ensure that they do not bring it in through the back door of the NBN technical structure.

The time is ripe for that because if they are going to bring it in, it will be before July 2011.

What we will need to do now is beef up polling to show that the filter was a signficant reason for the swing against the ALP, in particular in places like Denison, Melbourne and Grayndler as well as WA, QLD and SA more generally.  Which, by the way, a number of anti-filter activists have been working since 2008.

And make this very public while mobilising the anti-filter troops for a potential future protesting play-off.

I believe this can be done, and I suggest the sooner the better.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Odds are they won&#8217;t oust Conroy for Lundy because through Windsor&#8217;s support of the NBN, the ALP narrowly won govt.</p>
<p>What we will need to do in the short term is lobby the government to drop the filter as a separate policy and ensure that they do not bring it in through the back door of the NBN technical structure.</p>
<p>The time is ripe for that because if they are going to bring it in, it will be before July 2011.</p>
<p>What we will need to do now is beef up polling to show that the filter was a signficant reason for the swing against the ALP, in particular in places like Denison, Melbourne and Grayndler as well as WA, QLD and SA more generally.  Which, by the way, a number of anti-filter activists have been working since 2008.</p>
<p>And make this very public while mobilising the anti-filter troops for a potential future protesting play-off.</p>
<p>I believe this can be done, and I suggest the sooner the better.</p>
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		<title>By: Jimboot</title>
		<link>/2010/opinion/why-the-greens-will-definitely-block-the-filter/comment-page-1/#comment-1450</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Jimboot]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Sep 2010 07:15:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=471#comment-1450</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[@syd hear hear. Not to diminish EFA or CJs work. 
But as we know the issue is much wider than the filter. Data retention, ACTA &#038; an NBN that supports Net Neutrality. If it is a private network where is legislation that protects it&#039;s openess? 

Also just because I&#039;m a global warming, ETS, Carbon tax skeptic doesn&#039;t mean I&#039;m a climate change one.  Nor does it mean Im NOT an environmentalist. Free renewable energy is what I spend all my spare time researching. 

How do we raise awareness further on these issues, during these politically opportune times.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@syd hear hear. Not to diminish EFA or CJs work.<br />
But as we know the issue is much wider than the filter. Data retention, ACTA &amp; an NBN that supports Net Neutrality. If it is a private network where is legislation that protects it&#8217;s openess? </p>
<p>Also just because I&#8217;m a global warming, ETS, Carbon tax skeptic doesn&#8217;t mean I&#8217;m a climate change one.  Nor does it mean Im NOT an environmentalist. Free renewable energy is what I spend all my spare time researching. </p>
<p>How do we raise awareness further on these issues, during these politically opportune times.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Syd Walker</title>
		<link>/2010/opinion/why-the-greens-will-definitely-block-the-filter/comment-page-1/#comment-1449</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Syd Walker]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Sep 2010 06:40:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=471#comment-1449</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Colin,

Thanks for your response,

I&#039;m currently a member of the Greens, so FWIW I have no problems with supportive comments. I also think the Greens are the strongest part of the parliamentary mix from the civil liberties / anti-censorship perspective.

I&#039;m more concerned about the Coalition - and of course the Government is Labor and it&#039;s been Labor that&#039;s pushed for the filter policy so far.

The incoming Federal Parliamentary Labor Party is currently caucussing and Gillard is working out her ministry. That&#039;s why I say I think the time is ripe NOW to strike hard on the filter issue and knock it off.

It&#039;s true that might apply to other issues (privacy, games licencing etc). But Conroy&#039;s &#039;filter&#039; is THE current issue.

Nick Ross, ABC Technology commentator, expressed the view that the filter may have been crucial in the election outcome. It&#039;s not just me making this up. You must know that?

Yet from where I sit (admittedly seeing only part of the picture) it&#039;s as though we&#039;ve won a prize but no-one has stepped forward to claim it.

Get Up might have done that. Its spokespeople seem proficient in the media and well connected. But Get Up dropped the filter issue out of its election campaign and if its doing anything now, I&#039;m not aware of it.

The only other possible organisation - and the most appropriate organisation - that could corner the media on this is the EFA.

I appreciate this is your personal blog. I also understand that that I only have a partial view of things. You may well be doing stuff I don&#039;t now about.

But I WOULD like the EFA, at this time, to be claiming credit on behalf of a very large grass roots campaign for affecting the election outcome and more importantly I WOULD like the EFA to be LOUDLY demanding the end of Conroy&#039;s filter NOW - and ideally, a change of Communications Minister too.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Colin,</p>
<p>Thanks for your response,</p>
<p>I&#8217;m currently a member of the Greens, so FWIW I have no problems with supportive comments. I also think the Greens are the strongest part of the parliamentary mix from the civil liberties / anti-censorship perspective.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m more concerned about the Coalition &#8211; and of course the Government is Labor and it&#8217;s been Labor that&#8217;s pushed for the filter policy so far.</p>
<p>The incoming Federal Parliamentary Labor Party is currently caucussing and Gillard is working out her ministry. That&#8217;s why I say I think the time is ripe NOW to strike hard on the filter issue and knock it off.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s true that might apply to other issues (privacy, games licencing etc). But Conroy&#8217;s &#8216;filter&#8217; is THE current issue.</p>
<p>Nick Ross, ABC Technology commentator, expressed the view that the filter may have been crucial in the election outcome. It&#8217;s not just me making this up. You must know that?</p>
<p>Yet from where I sit (admittedly seeing only part of the picture) it&#8217;s as though we&#8217;ve won a prize but no-one has stepped forward to claim it.</p>
<p>Get Up might have done that. Its spokespeople seem proficient in the media and well connected. But Get Up dropped the filter issue out of its election campaign and if its doing anything now, I&#8217;m not aware of it.</p>
<p>The only other possible organisation &#8211; and the most appropriate organisation &#8211; that could corner the media on this is the EFA.</p>
<p>I appreciate this is your personal blog. I also understand that that I only have a partial view of things. You may well be doing stuff I don&#8217;t now about.</p>
<p>But I WOULD like the EFA, at this time, to be claiming credit on behalf of a very large grass roots campaign for affecting the election outcome and more importantly I WOULD like the EFA to be LOUDLY demanding the end of Conroy&#8217;s filter NOW &#8211; and ideally, a change of Communications Minister too.</p>
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		<title>By: Jimboot</title>
		<link>/2010/opinion/why-the-greens-will-definitely-block-the-filter/comment-page-1/#comment-1447</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Jimboot]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Sep 2010 06:23:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=471#comment-1447</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[You are probably roright that the Greens wont backflip as they may find it to be their GST if they do. I think it is dangerous for some to assume tho (like Getup) that the fight is over. We still have a ridiculous blacklist, link deletion notices etc etc. Whilst that exists, it&#039;s easy for a Govt to say exactly what Conroy has been saying. We&#039;re improving on the blacklist.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You are probably roright that the Greens wont backflip as they may find it to be their GST if they do. I think it is dangerous for some to assume tho (like Getup) that the fight is over. We still have a ridiculous blacklist, link deletion notices etc etc. Whilst that exists, it&#8217;s easy for a Govt to say exactly what Conroy has been saying. We&#8217;re improving on the blacklist.</p>
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